Tuesday, February 15, 2011

AW Bans Intelligence

*Fifth Update* Here's the deal. I took my blog down yesterday because I didn't want to waste my energy on this. All the folks at AW were screaming something be done to end all this.

Guess what? As soon as my blog went down, they all worked really hard to post it back up at the forums. Uh, hello???

So beyond that, now they're talking trash about me on the Echelon Press thread--saying FAR, FAR worse things than anything I ever did to get banned.

You want proof of nepotism? There ya go...

Hey, AW, thanks for proving ALL my points! Have a nice day :)

*And now back to your regularly scheduled programming!*


*Fourth Update* Apparently Echelon Press should fire me now, LOL :) At least Lynn Price of Behler Publishing would fire her editor, er...guess that means herself...if she made libelous personal attacks...

Oh wait, she did! I wonder what sort of severance pay her husband is going to offer her... Any guesses? :)

*Third Update* Well, it appears the folks over at AW are losing their collective minds--and tempers! LOL :) Apparently they've decided that asking a question about whether or not a publisher promotes their authors is considered "an attack" on said publisher. *SNORT* Also, they've turned the Echelon Press thread into a "Bash Jenny" thread because they're too cowardly to come here. What's funny is that I got banned for saying "thank you"--yet they're saying FAR worse things and being applauded.

Another sad, sad, day for AW. I feel like having an online moment of silence for the writing forum that once was. Naaa, they can't shut me up that easy, and it's driving them crazy! :)

*Second Update* There's a person named "Giant Baby* (lol, I couldn't make this stuff up) who is claiming she or he didn't have the guts to post here because that would be too "validating." I guess if you want to slunk off and talk behind someone's back, there's no better name for you than "Giant Baby." Aside from that, I know they're all reading my blog because the hits keeping jumping by the minute! Aw, shucks, AW, I didn't know you cared so much! :)

*UPDATE* It would appear that the WATB as my mother would call them, have decided to talk big where I can't respond. That makes them cowards. So here's a challenge all you big talkers over at AW--Come here and say it to my face. Or are you too afraid your ignorance will be challenged? It's easy to think you're all big and bad when you're hiding behind a Soccer Mom! Lol ;)


Okay, like many writers, I relied on Absolute Write Water Cooler for my information about the writing industry. Unfortunately, their reliability is no longer a certainty.

At one time, members I highly respected, were eager to find the negative aspects of a contract or a business model. Today, I find that “author farms” as Veinglory, the “Flying AW Mod Monkey!” with more than 16,000 posts, most certainly a knowledgeable member of the forums, calls them, are being touted as trusted “brands.” An author farm, if your as unfamiliar with the term as I was, is like an author mill in that a publisher simply contracts books at will, often doing a shoddy job of editing, or otherwise simply correcting typos and misspellings, except they don’t expect authors to buy their own books the way the mill would. An author farm, therefore, has a vast database of badly, poorly edited books.

Instead of AW warning aspiring authors about this however, they are using “Friendship” to determine what is acceptable and unacceptable. When all the reports for a particularly well-known massive epublishing house were all glowing and wonderful, I was surprised because frankly—I thought AW had higher standards than that. Of course, pointing this out didn’t win me any brownie points with those who are perpetuating this fraud on unsuspecting authors.

But here comes the absurd part of all this. They banned me for three days (so far) because I dared respond in-kind to snarky and often silly, accusations about my own publishing house. They claimed that my publisher was refusing to make money out of spite.

Now, if you’ve got any common sense, you realize how absurd that idea is. Still, it appears that someone complained they didn’t get a print run the publisher never promised, never contracted them for, and therefore, because of this absent imaginary print run, they didn’t have books for an event.

That’s right. It’s the old, “My publisher refuses to make money because they don’t like me!” argument.

As head-scratching as that may be to intelligent thinkers like you and me, it appears my response is just nutty:

“POD technology is used to keep books in print all the time. This means when a book is ordered from Amazon for print publication, the single copy is printed and mailed to the customer. This is not unusual with many traditional publishers.

A print run is where the publishing house forks over money and space to print a ton of books based on their projected sales for the author and the title.

If an author is great and the publisher believes that they have a quality book, they may not do a print run for quite a while, if at all, until the author and/or the title proves one is merited.

If an author stomps their feet and demands a print run, regardless of their sales or experience in the industry, it is not up to the publisher to give in to those demands. They can, however, continue to make the book available according to the contract the author signed.

If the author wants their rights back, then there are channels that author can go through to get them back.”

Nothing earth shattering there, right? That’s all fairly standard stuff and easily understood by anyone who has been in the industry.

But OMG—you should have seen the heads spinning and the chest pounding going on in there. It doesn’t take much to turn some of these AW fanatics into stalkers. In fact, one of them made sure to follow me across threads just so I wouldn’t miss how they had put me on “ignore.” So of course I respectfully offered a “thank you”—pleased to know this person would stop stalking me. That, I believe, was why Soccer Mom--the referee apparently, for all this--decided out of everyone exchanging barbs, I was the one who needed a 'time out' as she put it! LOL :)

So be warned, folks. AW is not the most reliable place to get your information anymore, and in fact, should you ask or answer questions with a fair amount of insight, they might just start spitting pea soup at you!

30 comments:

Connie Hullander said...

You tell 'em, Jenny!

J.R. Turner said...

It's not hard to do that, since they're basically empty-headed and clueless. LOL :)

Priceless is just priceless. A publisher of "inspirational" books who doesn't understand POD technology or what a print run is. Poor thing. You can only have pity for someone so...

Well, my mother raised me better than to say that. I wouldn't want to hurt her feelings. ;)

Writing said...

Hi Jen,

Informative and yes, I agree. They are ignorant and obviously have nothing else to do except stalking writers. Maybe soccer mom should kick the ball into her own home.

Well written, Jen

Julie

J.R. Turner said...

Okay, let's clear a few things up:

A) It is not a secret that I accepted a position as editor of the YA line for Echelon Press. In fact, I even started a thread at AW about this and shared our submission guidelines.

Anyone who thinks this was a big secret I was hiding is seriously in need of a brain transplant.

B) The reason I posted on the DDP thread at all was based on reading the excerpts on their front page and finding AW saying they are a "trusted" brand. Yeah, and if you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you.

Seriously, go read the excerpts for yourself. Either the writing sucks or there are typos. Just sayin'

C) There is a certain person over there pretending ignorance and asking questions he's had the answer to time and time again. You can pretty much bet wherever I posted on Absolute Write, he showed up asking the same stupid questions.

It's just his way of being a pest and trying to get under my skin. When in reality, it just makes him look hopelessly ignorant about the industry after all this time.

D) If this anonymous person this entire controversy seems to be centered around is indeed an invention of Priceless1's imagination, someone should remove her from being able to sign contracts--she's not mentally fit.

If on the other hand, this person did tell her these things in confidence--WAY to keep those confidences, Priceless!

In the end, that makes Priceless1 either untrustworthy or mentally incompetent. Neither are traits I look for in someone I want to get my information from.

How about you?

heatherthebard said...

I used to LOVE A.W. A lot of what I know today came from hanging out there.

Unfortunately, they've really gone downhil, IMHO. As a short story writer who was/is open to alternate ways of getting my work to the public, I found it increasingly difficult to deal with some of the discussion -- or lack thereof -- regarding publishing routes. (i.e. the ONLY way to become a short story writer is to get published in printed Lit Mags -- regardless of the fact that the printed magazine market has all but dried up... and no one seems to want to admit that short stories are making a HUGE comeback in ebook and ezine channels)

So, I quit hanging out there. Life is just too short... (no pun intended!)

Julie said...

Ahh Drama... how I strive to avoid it. :(

Sorry you had to go through that, but great job on standing up for yourself and Echelon!

Julie

J.R. Turner said...

I hear ya, Heather!

I asked them to delete my account at one time and they refused. Bet they're rethinking that right now, hey?

Unfortunately, the incestuous romance between the old-timers is isolating them from the rest of the publishing industry. Too bad. They were great once. It's always sad to see something so helpful disintegrate into a cesspool.

But hey, if they really cared, they'd do something about that, wouldn't they?

J.R. Turner said...

Oh BTW, just to offer my own little "Beware and Background Check" here.

You may want to avoid Behler Publishing as Priceless1 is associated with them. She doesn't comprehend how a POD book can be available for print without a print run.

Scary!

Becky Hancock of Calico Books said...

Oh good lord! That's just frightening that they can be so shut-off from the rest of the world, much less the rest of the industry they claim to work in.

Good for you for getting out of that mess, though. That's just ridiculous. Made for some entertaining reading this evening though. ;)

Benjamin LeRoy said...

J.R. TURNER SAID
POD technology is used to keep books in print all the time. This means when a book is ordered from Amazon for print publication, the single copy is printed and mailed to the customer. This is not unusual with many traditional publishers.

I think part of the problem with the debate going on over at AW is that terms are only being loosely defined and that leads to misunderstandings. The term ‘traditional publisher’ is one in question. Since most book sales go through retail outlets and those sales are typically funneled through a wholesaler or distributor (sometimes both), the independent publishers and larger (Big Six) publishers I know do not employ one copy at a time POD. They may use digital printing to do small print runs in the hundreds of copies to fulfill backorders and keep some inventory on hand, but I don’t know them to do one at a time to mail to the customer.

A print run is where the publishing house forks over money and space to print a ton of books based on their projected sales for the author and the title. If an author is great and the publisher believes that they have a quality book, they may not do a print run for quite a while, if at all, until the author and/or the title proves one is merited.

I’m a little unclear with this point. In my experience, in the months leading up to a book’s release date, backorders are generated by a sales force (either in house or independent rep group) with the overall number fluctuating based on things like trade reviews, planned media, and author tours. . It’s far from an exact science, but the cost savings benefit of doing an offset print run coupled with the ease and relative efficiency of subsequent reprints using digital printing methods, make it manageable to determine initial print runs.

Before a book is acquired, the publishers I know run a P/L to clearly define the sales goals for the title. If the publisher doesn’t think he/she can sell enough copies to not only pay for the production, but also to clear a certain profit margin (typically no less than 20% in my experience, YMMV), then he/she will opt to pass on that book—sometimes with great regret.

Priceless is just priceless. A publisher of "inspirational" books who doesn't understand POD technology or what a print run is.

Priceless has built a successful publishing company in a competitive marketplace during a particularly challenging economic time. I browsed some of her titles’ listings on Bookscan and saw many books with sales numbers in the thousands and one book with over ten thousand sales. In addition to those sales numbers, I also saw blurbs from legitimate A-list folks like Katie Couric, John Lescroart, and starred reviews from respected trade journals like Booklist. I think it would be wrong to assume that she doesn’t understand POD technology or what a print run is.

*Second Update* There's a person named "Giant Baby* (lol, I couldn't make this stuff up) who is claiming she or he didn't have the guts to post here because that would be too "validating." I guess if you want to slunk off and talk behind someone's back, there's no better name for you than "Giant Baby." Aside from that, I know they're all reading my blog because the hits keeping jumping by the minute! Aw, shucks, AW, I didn't know you cared so much! :)

I also don’t think it’s a far characterization to say that Giant Baby “is claiming she or he didn’t have the guts to post here …” I saw no mention of Giant Baby claiming a lack of guts. I know Giant Baby personally and would even say that she is a good friend of mine who is a student of the publishing industry. I understand your frustration with being banned temporarily on AW (and I may even share some of your sentiments about cliquishness among certain elements), but I don’t see how Giant Baby can be faulted for continuing the discussion where it started.

J.R. Turner said...

Hi Ben, thanks for validating my blog, LOL :)

Let’s address the parts you didn’t understand:

“I think part of the problem with the debate going on over at AW is that terms are only being loosely defined and that leads to misunderstandings.”

Um, if industry pros don’t understand the terms POD technology and traditional publishing, they shouldn’t be calling themselves pros—or working as ones. They need to get a better education.

The Big 6 publishers use POD technology all the time. They use it to keep their backlist in print. You don’t really think that they’re sitting on over 40 years of previously-published books in a warehouse somewhere, do you?

“I’m a little unclear with this point.”
You don’t seem unclear at all. You stated the same thing I did.

“Priceless has built a successful publishing company…”

Priceless has a rich husband who runs the company, lives on a yacht, and publishes non-fiction memoirs about well known people. Not exactly the same endeavor as giving unknown fiction authors a chance to see print. And who’s assuming anything? Priceless made it absolutely clear she didn’t know anything about POD technology when she stated books available on POD wouldn’t be available for a book signing. Hello? Duh??? The word “available” sort of gives her a clue—or it should have.

“I also don’t think it’s a far characterization to say that Giant Baby “is claiming she or he didn’t have the guts to post here …” I saw no mention of Giant Baby claiming a lack of guts.”

Okay, read that again, verrrry slowwwwly this time. See how I say that she doesn’t have the guts to post here because she said she didn’t want to validate my blog? Get it? If not, try reading it again.

Still don’t get it? Okay, let me spell it out for you:

I, Me, J.R. Turner, Jenny—said she didn’t have the guts to post here. Giant Baby (lol, what a name) said it was because she didn’t want to validate my blog. Get it?

“I don’t see how Giant Baby can be faulted for continuing the discussion where it started.”

Read back through the AW thread at Echelon Press and explain to me where the discussion became about ME and how everyone felt so brave to make untrue, insulting statements about me as a person. Right about the time “Giant Baby” started posting, wasn’t it? So yeah, your claim that little miss innocent was just posting about Echelon Press on the forum is a bit…retarded. Sorry. I’m not as “stoopid” as those you seem used to dealing with.

You may want to think of getting a higher class of friends. Ones who don’t have to lie about others to build themselves up or who don’t try (sad attempts really, considering how their ignorance shone through) to ruin the reputations of dozens of great people. Echelon Press is not the dozen or so book enterprise that Behler publications is (seriously, who names a publishing house after a character in their own failed novel?)

I hope that clears up all your confusion.

J.R. Turner said...

Just a quick reminder to all my readers from AW:

You're totally making yourselves look like idiots. When strangers come through and read the thread, they're going to be scratching their heads about all those "attacks" you guys keep claiming.

Just so you know, and I'm really trying to help you here, the stuff I post on my blog--doesn't actually appear on AW.

If you're trying to respond there, to things I said here, you're gonna make yourself look like a doofus. Just sayin' ;)

If you want to respond to me--the blog is wide open. Ask Ben ;) LOL :)

J.R. Turner said...

Ah, slight correction folks...

Priceless1 doesn't actually live on a yacht...

Oops! My bad.

So it's just a *really nice* house. Of course she's claiming her husband isn't wealthy, etc. etc. Too bad she lied to her friend then. Or did she forget the interview she gave?

Like I said, untrustworthy...

I wonder if she's going to go to that interview page and ask that the part she claimed all this be redacted. Probably not...

Polenth said...

heatherthebard said:
As a short story writer who was/is open to alternate ways of getting my work to the public, I found it increasingly difficult to deal with some of the discussion -- or lack thereof -- regarding publishing routes. (i.e. the ONLY way to become a short story writer is to get published in printed Lit Mags -- regardless of the fact that the printed magazine market has all but dried up... and no one seems to want to admit that short stories are making a HUGE comeback in ebook and ezine channels)

The short fiction forum on AW talks about ezines all the time. Many people submit to them, have been published by them and recommend them to others. It just might not be obvious because they're called by their names and their ezine status isn't highlighted (a market is a market, however they publish). Some members have tried self-publishing shorts as singles and collections too, with varying degrees of success. So if someone said something bad to you about eformats, that's unfortunate, but it's not the majority view among short fiction writers on the forum.

J.R. Turner said...

Polenth, I think this touches on the comment Becky made.

The forums at AW are not as friendly as they once were, when voices could be shared and smaller steps toward publishing were applauded.

These days it seems if you're not contracting with one of the Big6 straight out the gate or getting massive print runs and advances, you simply aren't allowed to "join" in with them. From an outsider's perspective, that's very, very off-putting.

That's the reason you get such a discrepancy on the lists. If you read many of the threads, you'll see members with posts in the thousands and those with posts lower than 500. This is because many just don't have the time or energy to deal with cliques.

Most of us left that sort of thing behind in high school. ;)

Thanks for posting on my blog though, and for offering Heather a warmer view of AW.

J.R. Turner said...

All righty then--contrary to public statements about my 3 day ban being lifted today, giving me the opportunity to delete all I wanted to, they went ahead and banned me "forever." Lol ;)

That's all right though. It'll save me from the temptation of correcting their massive errors and addressing unwarranted, false attacks on me and the company I work for--by rival so-called professionals.

Good riddance, I say! And so concludes the very last (Thank Gawd) chapter in that mess.

Now go visit a stop on my blog tour and see what you can win! :)

Warmly,
Jenny:)

Sarah said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Sarah said...

You wrote in the comment above:

These days it seems if you're not contracting with one of the Big6 straight out the gate or getting massive print runs and advances, you simply aren't allowed to "join" in with them. From an outsider's perspective, that's very, very off-putting.

If this is true, how do explain AW mods like Emily Veinglory who publishes exclusively with e-pubs?

I have seen many positive comments on AW about small presses that do their jobs of producing and selling books (check out the Apex Books thread for one example of a very small company that gets the job done).

While you may not appreciate Lynn Price's comments, it's hard to argue with her experience as the editor of an established, mid-size press. If you read through AW threads on the various presses that ended up folding or running into trouble, you'll note that Lynn is one who often pointed out signs of trouble well ahead of time.

I don't quite follow where this whole temper tantrum is coming from, but if you feel the need, carry on. I can't say it's doing wonders for your credibility as a professional, though.

ETA: Sorry, double posted.

J.R. Turner said...

Hi Sarah,

“If this is true, how do explain AW mods like Emily Veinglory who publishes exclusively with e-pubs?”

Oh, absolutely—what the cliquish old-timers do is wonderful—but if those who are not part of that clique do the same thing—they’re lambasted for it. That’s why I said they were hypocrites. Look at how unprofessionally they behaved after I was banned. The false accusations in there are far more horrendous than anything I said.

“I have seen many positive comments on AW about small presses that do their jobs of producing and selling books (check out the Apex Books thread for one example of a very small company that gets the job done).”

Yes—and I would hazard a guess that the cliquish old-timers have a friend or two published by them, if not themselves. Also, I would hazard a guess that no one is running to the boards badmouthing them based on nothing more than the prejudiced gossip of what amounts to little more than a disgruntled ex-employee with an axe to grind.

“While you may not appreciate Lynn Price's comments, it's hard to argue with her experience as the editor of an established, mid-size press.”

I don’t appreciate her comments because they’re flat out lies. I do argue with her because my experience with as an editor with an established small press has given me far more insight and knowledge about how publishing works (especially POD, which Lynn expresses very little first-hand knowledge about, if any at all) than the average person posting over at AW.

“If you read through AW threads on the various presses that ended up folding or running into trouble, you'll note that Lynn is one who often pointed out signs of trouble well ahead of time.”

I can’t look over any of the threads. I’ve been banned for life. And no matter how rightly or wrongly Lynn calls the life span of a start-up, Echelon is celebrating 10 YEARS of operation. We are hardly a start up and we wouldn’t be in operation this long if our business model was faulty. In fact, Double Dragon Press offers a far worse contract than we do. Is Lynn going after them for their bad contract?

“I don't quite follow where this whole temper tantrum is coming from, but if you feel the need, carry on. I can't say it's doing wonders for your credibility as a professional, though.”

Okay, let me see here….

A rival publishing house comes onto a public forum and claims gossipers told her something in confidence. The professionals of the publishing house come on and explain how this is just gossip and untrue. Lynn Price then goes on to make far more libelous claims and you come on here to defend her days after the fact?

Who’s the one throwing the tantrum, here, Sarah? How very professional of you.

Jenny

3675b272-41b6-11e0-9441-000bcdcb5194 said...

Macallister Stone has been running AW into the ground for quite awhile. Logic and reason never work in discussions over there. I have witnessed many of the moderators react irrationally to a well thought out argument. I think quite a few of the active members are in desperate need of remedial reading comprehension classes.

Banging your head against a brick wall would be a more productive use of your time than discussing anything on AW. Let it go. You're better off without AW in your writing life.

behlerblog.com said...

I'm fairly certain my post may deleted, but on the off chance that JR is quasi interested in the truth, I talked to five authors over the past two weeks who have never been paid royalties - despite Karen's promises of payment.

Whatever you think of me is immaterial. However, I do verify my facts before posting them, and I don't engage in temper tantrums because they're unprofessional and would tarnish the reputation of our company. It would appear you enjoy no such constraints.

Mags said...

"If you want to respond to me--the blog is wide open. Ask Ben ;) LOL :)"

Have you changed this policy? I can't find my comment, which I put considerable time and thought into. It's safe in my Atom feed, so it made it's way through okay. Hmm. Perhaps you're moderating, now?

Sincerely,

Mags (Giant Baby)

Mags said...

Hmm... Nope. I show up just fine without moderation. There seems to have been some sort of deletion malfunction with my original comment. Let me know if you need me to re-post it on your "wide open" blog. As I said, it's safe in my feeds.

Thanks,

Mags (Giant Baby)

J.R. Turner said...

Wow! You both finally have the nerve to come post on my blog. I find it laughable you would take so long to do so. My goodness, you really can't move on, can you?

Okay, let's take care of Lynn first:

“I'm fairly certain my post may deleted, but on the off chance that JR is quasi interested in the truth, I talked to five authors over the past two weeks who have never been paid royalties - despite Karen's promises of payment.”

First, lets get something straight here. You have no first-hand knowledge of anything concerning Echelon press. You are going on the word of strangers and attacking another publishing house. If you feel this is something the world should know—then urge all those strangers to come forward and make their situations known. It is not your right to break their confidences and it puts you in a precarious position.

You want to know why?

Did it occur to you that none of those authors may have even earned a royalty? Did it occur to you that none of them may never have earned back their advances?

You are in the wrong, Lynn, and you need to suck it up and get over this. If anyone deserves an apology it’s Karen Syed—you owe her one, BIG TIME.

“Whatever you think of me is immaterial. However, I do verify my facts before posting them…”

So you’ve looked at the royalty statements for each individual? You’ve gotten a readout of Echelon Press’ accounting information? I don’t think so.

How would you like it if I ran around saying that Ludmilla Bollow told me you treated her unfairly and that she regrets ever being published with Behler? How would you like it if the only proof I offered was telling you it was true?

Should Karen want to, she could go after you for libel. You have no proof of anything you’ve ever stated. Only gossip. It is VERY unprofessional of you to make these accusations public. VERY unprofessional.

“…and I don't engage in temper tantrums because they're unprofessional and would tarnish the reputation of our company. It would appear you enjoy no such constraints.”

Ah, but isn’t that exactly what you’re doing here so many days after the fact? Throwing your little temper tantrum on my blog? I imagine it’s because your attorney told you there wasn’t anything actionable on my blog and you could find no other way to “get back” at me. I hope you enjoyed your little tantrum. I’m leaving it up for all the world to see.

Now on to Giant Baby (still can’t get over that name! Lol!)

Mags—I was at an event all day yesterday and haven’t been on my computer until now. Go ahead and post your temper tantrum. It will fit in nicely with Lynn’s post. I’m imagining you must have something especially cutting that you’d like to share. As I said, my bog IS wide open. Too bad you didn’t bring your issues here to begin with. We could have brawled last week. Ah, well, if you must keep this going…post away!

Mags said...

“Now on to Giant Baby (still can’t get over that name! Lol!)”

You do seem to be having a hard time getting over it! I quite like it myself.

“Mags—I was at an event all day yesterday and haven’t been on my computer until now. Go ahead and post your temper tantrum. It will fit in nicely with Lynn’s post. I’m imagining you must have something especially cutting that you’d like to share. As I said, my bog IS wide open. Too bad you didn’t bring your issues here to begin with. We could have brawled last week. Ah, well, if you must keep this going…post away!”

How odd that you’d characterize my original, missing comment as a “temper tantrum.” It was actually a calmly worded, well thought out response to a few of your points. A bit snotty at times perhaps, but nothing like the vitriol you’ve been dishing out. Rather than re-post, however, I’ll do you one better. As it’s already disappeared once (having seen it post just fine), let’s just avoid tempting the delete gremlins in your blogger account again. Here’s a link to a screen cap of the original from the feeds, complete with timestamp and feed address: http://tinyurl.com/63v82jf
(Click once on the small image and it’ll jump right up to full size for you. You’re welcome.)

I have no interest in brawling with you, nor must we keep this going. I noticed the feed was active again, and your response to Sarah inspired me to respond. Honestly, I’m still roaring at the “Ben LeRoy is retarded” remark. It’s extremely difficult to take you seriously.

“Wow! You both finally have the nerve to come post on my blog. I find it laughable you would take so long to do so. My goodness, you really can't move on, can you?”

You remark that Lynn and I both finally found the nerve, and it’s laughable it took us so long, but we’re the ones who can’t move on? Enjoy the validation. I hope it's everything you were looking for.

-Mags (Giant Baby)

J.R. Turner said...

Welcome back, Mags. I won’t be addressing anything in the blog post you must have deleted as I certainly didn’t do anything of the sort. But lets get to what you did actually leave posted on my blog:

“You do seem to be having a hard time getting over it! I quite like it myself.”

I find it amusing—and telling.

“How odd that you’d characterize my original, missing comment as a “temper tantrum.””

I don’t know why you find it odd, Mags. You didn’t expect me to assume you were posting lovely commentary on my blog, did you? Now that WOULD be odd.

“I have no interest in brawling with you, nor must we keep this going. I noticed the feed was active again, and your response to Sarah inspired me to respond.”

So you were keeping tabs on my blog then. Why? I’m not keeping tabs on your blog. If you weren’t interested in engaging me, then why did you post? Now who’s the one being silly here?

“Honestly, I’m still roaring at the “Ben LeRoy is retarded” remark. It’s extremely difficult to take you seriously.”

I never called Ben LeRoy retarded. This speaks volumes about your reading comprehension. I said his characterization of you being innocent of bad-mouthing Echelon Press and me was retarded. And, you’ve proven me correct. Thank you.

“You remark that Lynn and I both finally found the nerve, and it’s laughable it took us so long, but we’re the ones who can’t move on? Enjoy the validation. I hope it's everything you were looking for.”

Yes. 12 days after the fact, and you’re still following my blog. Not only did you take the time to save a copy of the post you accidentally(?) deleted, but you obsessed about it so completely, you had to come back and make three more posts.

Please do move on, Giant Baby. I’m done with you.

behlerblog.com said...

Did it occur to you that none of those authors may have even earned a royalty?... that none of them may never have earned back their advances?

Yes, of course I considered this. But I've been told by Karen's authors that she doesn't pay advances, so how does one sell hundreds of books and not earn a royalty? Absent an advance, royalties would kick in immediately.

And this is above and beyond her asking authors to pay for print runs because she couldn't afford it.

As for the claims that I'm talking to strangers - actually, I've known several of Karen's authors for years.

You claim that I'm attacking Karen, so let's clarify the use of "attack":
to set upon in a forceful, violent, hostile, or aggressive way, with or without a weapon; begin fighting with

Where do you see me unleashing a forceful, violent, hostile, aggressive lob over her bow? I've stated that a number of Karen's authors have experienced numerous missing print runs that resulted in canceled author events, no royalties, promises of payment and rights reversions that never materialized. And I've done so on a board that specializes in bewares and background checks. I didn't engage in personal attacks and lie about anyone's personal and professional life as you've done.

Furthermore, I haven't mentioned any of the author's names, so how have I broken confidences?

How would you like it if I ran around saying that Ludmilla Bollow told me you treated her unfairly and that she regrets ever being published with Behler? How would you like it if the only proof I offered was telling you it was true?
The answer is simple. I would talk to Ludmilla and see who is lying. I still maintain cordial and open relationships with my authors - past and present. The problem with Karen is the people who are upset with her aren't talking to her because they're tired of her promises of print runs, rights reversions, or royalty payment.

My sole purpose for passing on solid, verified information is so authors can make informed decisions as to their publishing decisions.

I can see that my presence on your blog prevents you from discussing matters in a calm, rational manner, so I won't waste any more of your time. I have things to do and I'll let you get back to doing whatever it is you do.

J.R. Turner said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
J.R. Turner said...

(updated with correction)

“Yes, of course I considered this. But I've been told by Karen's authors...”

You’ve been told wrong, Lynn. That’s what I mean. You really have no idea what is going on inside Echelon Press. Why do you keep believing you do?

“And this is above and beyond her asking authors to pay for print runs because she couldn't afford it.”

Karen doesn’t ask authors to pay for print runs because she “can’t afford it.” That’s ridiculous and she told you so herself. Why do you continue to repeat this tripe?

“As for the claims that I'm talking to strangers - actually, I've known several of Karen's authors for years.”

Then they really have such a great friend in you, don’t they? That you would listen to their woes and then run all over the internet breaking their confidences. Why don’t these friends of yours come forward and save your bacon right now? Or is this just another tactic you’re using to try and make yourself appear justified for the warrantless attacks?

“Where do you see me unleashing a forceful, violent, hostile, aggressive lob over her bow?”

Where you called Karen a liar and went on to spew more horrid lies about Echelon Press and me as well. That’s an attack, and as much as you want to claim professionalism, it is the lowest sort of unprofessionalism there is. To go on to a public board and give second-hand, unverified information is bad enough—but then to berate the very people who have first-hand information for providing the truth on top of that? Inexcusable.

“I've stated that a number of Karen's authors have experienced numerous missing print runs”

Are you serious? Print runs don’t go missing. Another thing you need to educate yourself about.

“…that resulted in canceled author events,”

Author events are canceled for all sorts of reasons—but they’ve never been canceled because Karen couldn’t provide books. You passing on that misinformation is irresponsible.

“…no royalties, promises of payment and rights reversions that never materialized.”

No author is being held hostage, Lynn. You have got to be kidding. What possible motivation could Karen have for not reverting the rights to an author who is bad-mouthing Echelon and will obviously no longer be a sound investment? Do you even think first?

“I didn't engage in personal attacks and lie about anyone's personal and professional life as you've done.”

Right, your whole comment about Echelon hiring me being evidence they’re allergic to success was such a flattering statement to make. Do you treat everyone like they don’t have a clue? Is that why you think you could float these butt-nuggets past me and I wouldn’t smell the stench coming off them?

“Furthermore, I haven't mentioned any of the author's names, so how have I broken confidences?”

Maybe the better question would be to ask them why they didn’t come forward themselves. Perhaps it’s because they weren’t giving you the whole truth.

“The answer is simple. I would talk to Ludmilla and see who is lying.”
And if I continued to say you were lying about what I was told? That you were not fessing up to what Ludmilla told me and she wasn’t being honest with you because she was sick and tired of dealing with you?

Do you see the nasty situation you create when you do this sort of thing? It’s one of your own making and I still hold that you owe Karen a whopper of an apology.

“I can see that my presence on your blog prevents you from discussing matters in a calm, rational manner, so I won't waste any more of your time. I have things to do and I'll let you get back to doing whatever it is you do.”

Lol ;) You don’t think this is calm and rational? My goodness, you must be on some heavy duty meds, Lynn if this too upsetting for you to deal with. It appears that if someone doesn’t give you utter and total agreement, you find the need to disparage their character and call an attorney.

How’s that workin’ for you?

Thought so.

Buh-bye :)

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